Versatile Class

Discussion in 'Classes' started by Gigya, Dec 3, 2013.

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 2 users.
  1. Gigya

    Gigya Member

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    Hello there. As you can tell, I am quite new, and, as a result, I may be acting on information already shown. Please forgive me if I show my ignorance.
    From what I have seen, there seems to be a big lacking of a versatility class - a Jack-Of-All trades. Although the Blademaster is a very rounded and balanced class from the looks of things, this is not quite what I am speaking about. After all, the real talent of the Blademaster, in this regard, is the Hero advancement, which makes them these semi-spellswords. However, given that almost all classes have at least some magical talent, (again, I'm very, very green, so forgive me if this is incorrect) this seems, at least in this purpose, irrelevant.
    Although GU did an interesting job with the Adept Rogue, such a class is not necessarily what I'm talking about - afterall, that specific class had a lot of unique systems (where other classes had none), which made sense since the playable character was an Adept. I'm talking things like quick swapping, and learning most skills relatively equally. On top of this, this concept would be difficult to pull off given that it would cause a sort of meta disconnect - Tank's gone? No worries, I have a shield also on this character so I'll just jump right in and do their job. This sort of thing is what makes Paladins in World of Warcraft overpowered (in dungeons, anyway).

    I have a couple of suggestions, if a newbie like myself may:
    A class that has a complete removal of magical talent, instead focusing on physical skills (which would be extremely limited). From there, give free range access to all weapons (apart from shields, for reasons detailed above). If weapons play out differently from one another mechanically, this also gives this plenty of merit for its enjoyment factor, but enough lack of merit for other class options to be viable.
    Similar to GU System: Players would choose 3 classes that they slightly mimic when creating their character. This is a lesser suggestion, given I can see this becoming the standard very quickly (essentially, why make a pure class when you can do what three classes can do at once?)
    Make a class that simply has the ability to do a little bit of every role, but nothing perfectly.
    Make a class that, literally, mimic other characters - like the mime from Final Fantasy games. They can only use skills that they've seen (possibly only recently), and weapons they've been taught to use. Might spur a strange meta-economy, but properly tooling the system might prevent this.

    These are simply humble suggestions, I'm sure that there is a lot more to be investigated and commented on here.

    One of my main pulling points for MMOs are the Jack-Of-All-Trades classes, especially those that are integrated seamlessly. Those that do everything... But not necessarily well. Otherwise, I tend to be rather fidgety and spend so long on character creation simply choosing a class. Having that versatility means I can change on a whim instead of having to grind out a new character, and, when integrated properly, it also means that versatility and chaotic nature can be desired in parties.

    Edit: I've edited some things for grammar and clarification. I'm a bit of a night owl, and this post was written quite, quite late for me.
    MoogleMorphosis likes this.
  2. Aryth

    Aryth Developer Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    I have trouble seeing how a class like this can compete against the full classes (except in times when what people need is not currently available, so they have to settle for a less capable version). I have never been a fan of jacks-of-all-trades classes. They just seem like crappy versions of all the other classes rolled into one. You say it wouldn't be bad if integrated seamlessly, but I have my doubts that it can be integrated and balanced in a way that makes it competitive with other classes. Because it's not really good at anything, the pure classes will demolish them in PvP. In groups and in dungeons, a pure class certainly has more potency and, to me, is far more desirable. The problem here is that in order to make a jack-of-all-trades class useful I need to make them GOOD at all of the classes they can use, which gives them an unfair advantage.

    I'm open for a more detailed description of what you're looking for, but as it stands I'm not wholly convinced that a class like this can work.
  3. Keramory

    Keramory Guest

    Local Time:
    4:32 PM
    As Aryth said, the issue of putting a jack of all trades class is that it will cause a large strife for the community that uses the said class, or those who are not using it.

    Although all classes do have magic, the power and amount of that magic differs greatly. Hero's are designed to be that tank that isn't a tank as well as damage deal. They can also solo probably alot easier. We wont know for sure how these classes will act until they're put into the game but I wouldn't stress the large importance on roles in order to casually play this game just yet.
  4. Sacriel

    Sacriel Active Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    This topic has been discussed ad nauseum. As fun as it sounds to have such a jack of all trades, it would either need to suck as a kind of joke class or be potentially better than a specialized class but require 5x+ more experience to level. It would have to be something one would truly dedicate a ton of time to, and would be a nightmare to balance and take a nasty amount of development time to get right as has been pointed out.
  5. Orion

    Orion Senior Member Senior Member

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    Exactly. Though you must admit it would be pretty fun. The idea of lets say a Wavemaster having to go against a Wavemaster/Rogue/Lancer or whatever doesn't seem good. If you think about it its either going to either be Under-powered as crap or its going to have so many balancing issues. It's like that saying "Anything you can do I can do better." Though it would also make single wavemasters/Rogues whatever kinda useless if they can do it to. So, they have a Healer/Treasure man/Tank unless they got under-powered they would basically make most classes useless might as well play the "Jack-of-all-trades" class. But, I could have fun with it xD
  6. karashe

    karashe Well-Known Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    How would you feel for a monk/martial arts class?
  7. Aryth

    Aryth Developer Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    I said in the monk thread that I wouldn't mind adding it in the future. However, there's so many classes right now that if we keep adding them you guys will never get a game because we'll spend all of forever balancing it. XD
  8. karashe

    karashe Well-Known Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    Oh lol srry

    (didn't see that part in the page)
  9. Aryth

    Aryth Developer Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    I stand corrected, it was a Tribal Grappler thread.
    Mattimao1239 likes this.
  10. Keramory

    Keramory Guest

    Local Time:
    4:32 PM
    The only way I can see Tribal Grappler coming anytime soon is if we take out all the advanced classes, which I'm sure many people don't want...or rework it so the advanced classes are just optional weapons on one class. That would still make us make over 14 class animations though.
    So really, theres no option to make A grappler class atm. I only stated the above to let you know when you request something, believe me we think about it to see if its workable.
  11. Gigya

    Gigya Member

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    Thanks for the replies, folks.
    I can understand where a lot of balance issues and such can come from, and it's unfair of me to ask you to do a bunch of work designing and balancing a single character class based on only my request.
    One might also think about a class that performs all roles, but performs them differently than other classes? Hmm.
    Aryth, I'll see if I can't write out a proper class schematic (I'm a designer myself) that takes into consideration other classes and balancing for PvP and dungeons. I'll post it here a bit later.
  12. Keramory

    Keramory Guest

    Local Time:
    4:32 PM
  13. snakebyte12

    snakebyte12 Senior Member Senior Member

    Local Time:
    7:32 PM
    sorry if im interrupting, but i may actually have figured out how to balance the class! You would just have to make them level up slower. (probably like 1.5X or 2X) and make it so they can't access the second, or highest level skills for each class. this could solve the balancing issue.
  14. Aryth

    Aryth Developer Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    That makes them at an even worse disadvantage, and then, when they catch up to the level cap, whatever that is, they are unstoppable. If I have to make their level cap lower AND their leveling slower, then it's just not worth it.
  15. Kodum

    Kodum Dev Team Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    7:32 PM
    But it would be breaking from the norm, an MMO in which different classes could reach different levels. Not saying it's a good idea, just... interesting.
  16. calmchaos

    calmchaos Moderator Staff Member Senior Member

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    If you make their stats all-around average and just give them the ability to equip any weapon, that would keep it decently balanced.
    It almost reminds me of the Super Novice in Ragnarok Online.
  17. Aryth

    Aryth Developer Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    Balanced is only part of the problem. The other part is competitive ability. That class can't have any strengths, and that becomes a major handicap.
  18. calmchaos

    calmchaos Moderator Staff Member Senior Member

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    Their strength lies in their versatility. That class can use any weapon it wishes in any situation. It's like that saying about always having the right tool for the right job. Were the player going up against a hero, he could start out with a rune gun, getting in as much ranged damage as possible before switching to a sword and shield to protect himself from the imminent torrent of physical strikes. At any point in the fight, he could switch over to, say, a wizard's staff and volley a couple of fireballs before going back to whichever weapon is safest. It would be the "Joker" class. A class such as this has the greatest handicap but also has the greatest strength.

    This reminds me of a saying I read somewhere:
    Anyway, I'm neither for nor against. It would be an interesting addition, but I won't mind its absence.
  19. Aryth

    Aryth Developer Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    How is someone who is average in all stats going to be better than a player who is the master of a particular weapon? If I want a high defense player to help pull monsters so that I can do damage, for example, why would I pick a versatile class who is average in defense (but can use the equipment) over a specialist? This class just can't compete in MOST cases, hence it's versatility is weakened by its averageness.
  20. calmchaos

    calmchaos Moderator Staff Member Senior Member

    Local Time:
    6:32 PM
    Yeah. It really is more trouble than it's worth. Most people just like it for the novelty.

    Seeing as it's technically a joke class, it's abilities could be affected by the main color of the chest gear. (The visual gear, not actual gear.) Each color would define the role/class the trickster is mimicking. Thus, while he is, for example, wearing the the color designated for knights, his knight-based skills would be increased slightly. Of course, they still wouldn't be as good as the original, but it would make the difference much less apparent. The color of your visual gear takes time to change, so it still hampers his ability to instantly take on any role as good as the original.

Share This Page

  • Facebook