Possible changes to classes

Discussion in 'Classes' started by Keramory, Dec 27, 2013.

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  1. Keramory

    Keramory Guest

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    We're discussing several things with the game now along with development, and a good point was brought up with TW.
    Before, and possibly still, we developed the game so far like .hack but with typical MMO elements, such as a storyline and a line from begining to end for the most part.
    However Joseph along with others brought up a few good points, as in TW being a completely open game where the players can do what they want.
    Which is true in TW so far for the most part, but there are some limit to what "freedom" means within the game.
    So we've or will made some minor changes, such as the main storyline being optional as well. They will be changed to Root Town storylines. The side storyline will of course, also be optional as it once was.

    The biggest possible change however, is the class system and thats why I brought it from a few peoples view, to everyones. This would be due to the introduction of one or two very important NON-COMBAT classes.
    At the moment, theres alot of fricken classes thanks to the Advanced Classes. Honestly the novelty of the idea is wearing off to me and I'm sure others who have to deal with it...and in even more honesty it'd be a while before they're added anyway, thanks to doubling up animations.
    More issues with the classes which I know some players had problems with included:
    - Most classes doubled into an optional DD class, making many classes too similar to one another.
    - Thief wouldnt get its twinblades for a long time (until rogue came out) which I know many .hack fans wouldnt like to see.
    - We still ended up with the same number of tanks and supporting classes more or less.

    So with the possible revision, The Classes could look something along the lines of:

    Knight - Tank - Sword and Shield - More or less of what it is now. Maybe more on the Paladin side.

    Berserker - Tank - Giant Axe - Slightly more defense then before but still great attack power.

    Lancer (maybe renamed) - Damage Dealer - Lances, Staffs, Scythes - Weapon type influences weapon speed. Staffs make it attack fastest, Lances medium, Scythes slowest.

    Blademaster - Support - Samurai Swords, Great Swords- Most elemental affinity , Balanced

    Wavemaster - Damage Dealer / Support - Staffs , Tomes - Basically a wavemaster in .hack

    Rune Caster - Support - Rune Guns - Same as before

    New Classes - NonCombat Classes
    These are classes that do not see combat but are needed for the economy and structure of services most adventurers take for granted.
    Names are subject to change, just place holders so you understand the purpose.

    Merchent - Increased inventory size and ability to sell in player shops. Also able to fish.

    Crafter - Ability to gather special materials from fields and dungeons. Also able to craft armor, weapons and furniture. They are needed to help construct @homes.

    Let me know what you guys think.
    Asuna, Redsnow and calmchaos like this.
  2. Orion

    Orion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sounds swell to me especially the Wavemaster in .hack. I do like the idea of a Merchant but if we look at .hack normal players regardless of class. (at least I thought they could) were able to open up a shop and sell items to other players so in a way it doesn't make much sense. Crafter idea is pretty swell since I don't see how anybody could be a master at making stuff like weapons and armor, especially a house though. So, it all sounds great except for the Merchant thing...but the idea to hold a shop is great! The bigger inventory is kinda tempting too...heh just my thoughts they don't matter much though.
  3. Stalwart_as_the_Mount

    Stalwart_as_the_Mount Senior Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

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    so are thieves being weeded out? and would having a crafter in your party take up a space since they're not combative?
  4. Keramory

    Keramory Guest

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    Crafters would not be in battles to take up space, and do not loot treasure. Thief is basically still thief but with two blades instead of one.
    Of course there is the possibility of making the two new jobs sub classes for the main classes.

    In .hack however (IMOQ) and the anime, I rarely saw adventurers sell things. It was straight up people dressed like shop keepers. We could just make it a subclass though for those who are interested. Actually shit that's probably a better option.
    I only suggested it as an actual class if we really want to make it HARDCORE with various options to be in the game.
  5. Orion

    Orion Senior Member Senior Member

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    It depends on what you mean by "Hardcore options" it could be a good idea really. I personally would like a game where I could be a shopkeeper but at the same time I don't really like the idea of making a whole new guy about it. Could be like a job thing or whatever those other games call it professions I think? The Crafter as another job or an individual class might be good as well. But, how would you get supplies or go fishing I would presume you would have to go to an area right? Those have monsters I can only assume so I'm curious to know how Shopkeepers or Crafters would get their materials. Unless they can give players quests like get me 10 of this so and so metal for 750 (Whatever the money is called or something.)
    MoogleMorphosis likes this.
  6. PK.

    PK. Well-Known Member Indiegogo Backer

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    By "mercent" did you mean "merchant"? Just checking!
  7. Keramory

    Keramory Guest

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    Yes! Sorry at work atm, no spell chick because there's no firefox
    PK. likes this.
  8. Kodum

    Kodum Dev Team Indiegogo Backer

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    Spell chick lulz.
    JackOfAllTrades and BMRX like this.
  9. MoogleMorphosis

    MoogleMorphosis Well-Known Member Senior Member

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    I have to agree with kite, because professions are what people need, aside from the fighting and exploring. People need something to do, and maybe they could run errands and the like, but what I hope for is a possible two professions: herbalism and potion-making, though I feel that the potion part may be already taken into mind. I think TW would be a good opportunity to help people find what they are good at and like. I`m super glad that tomes were included with wavemasters, but with the thieves, I feel a bit sunken of it. Thieves in my eyes, and perhaps to others, are supposed to be useful with their hands, having a free hand and dagger, but maybe it could lead to dual wield as a skill option of some sort.

    BTW, this is kinda minor and unrelated, but whenever I have to correct an error and click there mid-sentence, it writes over the rest. ^^` Still, it sparks up the inspiration to use a different style altogether.
  10. Bambi

    Bambi Well-Known Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

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    These new classes would make an interesting addition as an added profession but choosing a a non combat class seems a little dull and displaced in this series... mainly because of the heavy emphasis on field and dungeon clearing.. while professions could spice up game play and add depth.
  11. Dargath Menar

    Dargath Menar Member

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    1:32 AM
    I have to aggree with this comment because i also think that making 'professions' into a class sounds rather wierd to me. I think it would be better to make them into seperate professions wich you can only pick once (per character/account)
  12. Joseph Stacko

    Joseph Stacko Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, the reason for this is the fact that the anime and games of the .hack series tend to focus on these sorts of players. In .hack//SIGN however, you do encounter one of these players - the merchant who tells Subaru and Silver Knight about the "Cat Player Character".

    In terms of resources, those could always be found in dungeons/fields (like the Grunty Foods), which would add to the economy system.

    Players find resources, and sell them to merchants.
    Crafters make awesome items, and sell them to merchants.
    Merchants sell the awesome items to the players.

    Add in things like equipment decay (which IMO should be in every MMO) so that a player must continue to get better equipment to replace broken stuff, and you end up with a fully sustainable economy for the game.
    Cerberuspaw likes this.
  13. halika

    halika Well-Known Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

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    ^^ That makes sense, but why make it a completely separate class though? This forces characters who want to make good money to create and raise completely separate characters that they, normally, wouldnt use. Meaning they have to take time away from their normal character to focus on a crafter and a merchant too. Im not sure what you guys' stance on account sharing is, but it'd be common. Think about it. Having a merchant character is great, but if you dont go into dungeons what are you going to do with the loads of money/gear you make besides come up with a way to send it to your main character that actually needs it?

    Questions:
    1. Will there be a way to link your merchant with another existing character?
    2. Will you be able to mail equipment/gold?
    3. Will merchants be able to make their own prices (for competitive reasons) or will there be a standard price for items crafted?
    4. Are the resources going to be in the fields like grunty food, or items found in chests?
    5. If there will be durability (decay) for the equipment, does that mean there will be a blacksmith for restoring equipment? If yes, will Blacksmithing also be a new class?
    6. What happens if durability hits 0.. will it break/delete itself or just remove status effects?
    7. Will crafters have to choose certain things they can craft (heavy armor, leather, cloth, potions, weapons, etc.) or will they craft everything?
    8. You said merchants can fish. What is the fishing for?
  14. Kodum

    Kodum Dev Team Indiegogo Backer

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    I agree with item decay, but this system will only work if and only if there are enough crafters and merchants. Fact of the matter is, the game is centered around field/dungeon adventuring. That's always fun, slaying monsters and bosses and the like. Selling is also a really cool feature for those that would run the auction house in other MMOs, or those who just don't find much interest in adventuring. But crafting is boring. Unless some kind of game was attached to crafting, like a mini game that determines the quality of the item, very few people would be crafters, and even then, they'd probably specialize in armor or weapons only, and the economy would bottleneck and collapse.

    I think that professions have to be something you do alongside adventuring, but the higher your crafting level becomes, the lower your possible combat level can be. For example, if I were a blademaster and a weaponsmith, (and the max level was 50), I could be a lvl 50 bladesmaster or a lvl 50 weaponsmith, or a mixture of the two, like lvl 35 weaponsmith and 15 blademaster.

    Fact of the matter is, I don't think it's appropriate to cut out combat from a combat-centric game for players in hopes they'll select non-combat roles in the game to establish an economy. Although, I do agree with that cycle of economy, but we need to give crafters and merchants a way to not only experience The World, but also gather their own resources and items to craft or sell, respectively.

    Thoughts?
  15. halika

    halika Well-Known Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

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    Boo level caps! lol!
    That would make you useless to people that exceed your level as both a crafter and a party member. lets say people make it to level 50 and you did the 35/15 thing, you cant sell worthwhile gear to them because the level would be too low to want/need it, and you'd be a burden party-wise too since you cant carry your own weight.

    But that would be in interesting idea. But I'd be kinda sad to have to choose .
  16. karashe

    karashe Well-Known Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

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    I agree with what you said expect about the level, I think that the merchant, crafter, blacksmith should be professions which you could learn to do all with your main character (and they have a different leveling system then your main level system)
  17. Kodum

    Kodum Dev Team Indiegogo Backer

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    See, that only comes from a WoW perspective of crafting where only endgame players can obtain endgame recipes that only endgame craters can use to make endgame gear. frankly, there are other crafting models that are more entertaining, more complex, and more appropriate for The World.

    Also, a "do whatever you want" model for a game does not equate to "Do everything you want on one character" game. Hard choices make the game interesting and flexible.
  18. Cerberuspaw

    Cerberuspaw Senior Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

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    I think the idea of balancing out the combat vs non combat aspects that Kodum brought up is a good idea but allow max levels on both ends while changing increasing the level of one adversely effects the other say if I level up to 15 as a merchant and I'm currently lvl 22 as a Knight. The experience rate towards Merchant would be reduced since I don't prioritize non combat. Now say it were flipped my combat experience rate would be reduced because I don't prioritize combat. This will probably be shot down but I only imagine this was brought about to make the game more community centralized and what way better than knowing you have to prioritize combat over non combat ability while still allowing the PC to change there priority through simple hard work in another area. Eventually yes the level will meet up at both maxes but it won't be quick due to the experience reduction and will allow characters to find there niche and have an edge over hybrid combat/noncombat when lvl caps increase because they wont suffer that same experience loss from juggling the two
  19. Kodum

    Kodum Dev Team Indiegogo Backer

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    I like that idea, but what if there wasn't a maximum level, persay? This whole balancing combat vs. noncombat would only come into effect after one hits a certain threshold, say 30, to give newer players a chance to experience everything before dedicating themselves to combat or noncombat. Then, in both, after a certain threshold, you stop gaining experience from anything lower level than you, like weaker monsters and lower level crafted items, and you only gain experience from high level quests, bosses, and epic gear. That way, there would be no "max level" (or at least a max level that could ever be reached by a PC), but once you would hit say level 100, only by completing very high level stuff would you go past it, showing those PCs who have been playing a long time and who are dedicated to The World.

    Wha'cha think about that?

    This would also allow for high diminishing returns on multiple professions. Example: I prioritize noncombat, and I first level up weaponsmithing. To level up another crafting profession, you would need a lot more experience for it, but it still could be done. But, if you prioritized combat, you would have that increased experience on your first profession, and then even harsher on the second. That way, you could, in theory, have everything, but it'd take you such a long time that it wouldn't be feasible for anyone other than the utmost dedicated, and even then, it'd take a very long time.

    EDIT: Gathering professions are not involved in this. I believe every PC should be able to gather what they want and sell it for a profit. The limits to professions are only on crafting ones.
  20. Cerberuspaw

    Cerberuspaw Senior Member Senior Member Indiegogo Backer

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    I like it I was thinking about it as I was typing there should be some leeway so that a basic understanding of both sides can be gained before making the decision. And no level cap :O I need my sleep

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